Whispers Forum

DEBATE(1)
There is no comparison between a politician and an IAS administrator as a Minister. An IAS officer is used to a life of air-conditioned chambers and a hierarchical system where subordinates put up a case and he generally just signs it. He is far removed from the grass roots and has no personal knowledge of the basic problems of the country and the people. But a politician rises from grass roots or even when he/she is from a rich family. Since politicians go to the masses and meet them often. Politicians understand people's grievances better, can proudly evaluate and find answers.
S C Agrawal, Former DGP MP
Corruption in GoI - your version not true
Your version regarding corruption not in GoI is not true. Files of many corrupt officers facing CVC inquiry belongs to one particular govt sponsored ideology are pending in the Ministry specially in MO Education for the last many months. CVC has recommended action against officers but one ideology is saving them. Tender lobby is in full swing. GeM is only eye wash. Tender worth crores are provided on the instructions of Minister/Ministry.
Preeti Singh
Most difficult job
The most difficult job in 35 years carrier is to be fair, neutral and not to be attached to a post.
R K Upadhyay

DEBATE(1)
I don’t feel Ex-Civil Servants making any significant contribution in their respective Ministries. Politicians are far better.
L S Hardenia
IAS officer’s ‘Bhajan’ video a much sought after
It is rarest of rare. Unique. At the top of worldly achievement, it is really an achievement of spirituality. Great.
Raj Gopal
Anarchy in the Airwaves
While every organ of democracy has been contaminated to varied degrees in India, as also in many other advance countries, television has infected the press and lowered its prestige irrevocably. Viewers have no other option but to switch off the television rather than consume intense negativity wrapped in TV news and debates full of lies and malignant agenda. The famed “independence of the press” stands compromised today. News has become big business and filthy news becomes huge commercial success. The integrity of journalists is so low that many of them have become metaphors for corruption and doubtful integrity. The result is that the strongest Fourth Pillar has collapsed at the altar of political business, forfeiting public trust in its independence or objectivity or non-partisan reporting. Journalists can’t be blamed as no one is free or independent but subservient to his/her employer and depends on them for the job. In the early years of democracy in India, the editors used to dictate terms to the employers and were not pliable, but today they can be fired any time if they refuse to obey and do the news as demanded by the owners. There are many subjects that are included in the State List under the Constitution of India, where the executive authority vests in the state government. Police is one of them and instances are aplenty of misuse of the police in intimidating, harassing, coercing or arresting journalists for showing the spine. The free press is more or less a dead idea in democratic India. If an occasional or accidental independent and free journalist continues to be threatened and harmed, the public is bound to rebel. The people of India don’t tolerate autocratic behaviour of officers or the ministers of any rank.. Attempts to silence are going to prove counterproductive. Such conflicts regularly arise in one part or the other in India since democratic values are routinely violated by authoritative politicians and bureaucrat advisors. While the people seek justice, the political parties can ill afford to dispense justice. They are always selective. The police are not independent but function under the state government. If the police are unable to do justice to a citizen, the victim has the fundamental right to seek justice from the court. But here lies the catch: the judicial process is tardy and costly for the common man who is deterred from going to the court against the establishment.
M L Gupta

DEBATE (1)
IFS are high profile : IFS Ministers are high profile while IAS Ministers prefer to work silently.
O N Kapur
Cutoff year for spineless bureaucrat
As reported in Whispers there is a consensus that the cutoff year was 1980 and the change in recruitment pattern is responsible for this. Till 1972 the upper age limit for the IAS etc. examination (as it was then called) was 24 and candidates were allowed two attempts for each category of services – IPS, Central Services and IAS/IFS. For quite some time it was being felt that candidates from smaller towns were often unprepared for higher papers required for IAS/IFS by the age of 23 so as to be able to take two serious attempts. Hence the age was increased to 26 and the number of attempts to three. The pattern of examination remained unchanged. Then came the wave of socialism and 1979 exam (1980 batch) onwards the entire pattern was changed. Higher papers were abolished, English was deemphasised and upper age limit and number of attempts allowed went through the roof. Whether it resulted in promotion of socialism is unclear; but it resulted in a different kind of recruitment. Instead of intellectual calibre, the examination has become a test of persistence. Training was meant to inculcate ideals like service to the nation and promote esprit de corps among young persons fresh out of universities. Such a training is useless for middle aged experienced worldly-wise people. There is a wide variation between individual officers in each batch; but we are talking about the average. The responsibility for change of attitude of bureaucrats lies with the socialist-élite of the seventies and the UPSC.
M. B. Bauer
This forum is apolitical !
I am always under the opinion that this forum is apolitical one concentrating on news about bureaucracy, other govt and autonomous organisations including PSUs apart from the news about the corporate world.
K Srinivasa Rao

DEBATE (1)
IFS Ministers are methodical.
R D Paul
Selection board determines quality of batch
While agreeing to the overall assessment of Dr. Saxena I would add that even in pre 1980 batches there were glaring differences in the quality of the selected officers rather batches. In my opinion it is standard of the selection board which determines the quality of the batch e.g. 1978 and 1990 batches.
Ravinder
" Undeserved Accolades "
One Congress chatukaar called D K Barooah, in his 1974 proclamation, stooped so low as to coin the ominous slogan :
"India is Indira and Indira is India".
Barooah soon got disillusioned and left the Congress in disgust. Who is interested in recalling the horrendous days of emergency,the age of sychophancy?
Unless, lessons are learnt, history is bound to get repeated. India failed to learn lessons. Results were obvious. It is unfortunately blessed with a new breed of sychophants to fill the void and relive the horror of autocratic emergency era .
The captive TV Media and BJP’s hired chatukaars in their rhetorics take pride in equating PM Modi with India and vice-versa.
Giving credit to PM Modi for someone else's endeavours , is sinful; an open affront to indians. But, the smart public understands everything and cannot be fooled.
India is neither Modi, nor is Modi India !
India means our Armed forces, farmers, the marginalised labourers, scientists, teachers , the bureaucrats, Police etc. It also covers celebrated criminals, politicians, their sychophants like the builders mafia, dons, criminals, rapists and hooligans who can incite communal riots, violence with foreign funding, at short notice.
The moot point is : Why should credits actually due to our Armed Forces , farmers, scientists at ISRO,DRDO etc be collected as political brownie points by our Prime Minister ?
Unfair, unjust, unmerited and inequitable.
Will PM Modi stop this and eat into others’ achievements . The public gets the impression that all TV scripts are written in the PMO,focusing only on one person.
War strategies are formulated by the three army chiefs and CDS, not PM Modi. Applauding Modi for all achievements in digital and print media breeds contempt.He is shown either while praying in temples or laying foundation stones.
Let me be upfront . PM Modi must lead the Nation in these hard times. There is no substitute for him.
But he must change his style of functioning by jettisoning autocratic, obdurate and egocentric approach with an overinflated sense of self-worth.
Let him follow the consultative approach in decision making.
A K Saxena ( A former civil servant)

DEBATE (1)
In my view IAS ministers are more practical because they know the common men well.
R C Gandhi
Stop extensions
For some time it has become a routine practice to give extension to retiring bureaucrats. Are they so indispensable. These extensions would have already resulted in demoralisation of senior officers who may be next in line to occupy the coveted position. It is the rightful aspiration of every individual in any sector to occupy the highest post in their respective services. After 37 or 38 years of selfless and dedicated service, when an officer is denied his due because of such extensions, the morale of the services will suffer. The GoI should deny extensions in both state and central services unless there is requirement of retaining a few really brilliant officers for the public good.
K Srinivasa Rao
Fear of losing leadership post
Fear of losing leadership post from aspiring efficient leaders is the truth.
Bharthi

DEBATE (1)
Now the debate. As it is there is enough rivalry among several services specially the IAS and others. Why add to this. Induction of these civil servants in the cabinet itself is rather unusual. The Prime minister would have found talent in them to assign their respective portfolios to them. Some portfolios like External Affairs and Civil aviation have more visibility than Power. The number of portfolios also matters. It also depends upon the individual. Aggressiveness does not necessarily mean good performance.
Aarti Khosla
Cutoff year for spineless bureaucrat
As reported in Whispers there is a consensus that the cutoff year was 1980. This happened because UPSC changed the exam patter starting with 1979 examination (called IAS etc. examination upto 1978 exam 1979 batch). A careful observer can sense the difference between pre-1980 batches and 1980 batch. The age limit was increased as also the number of attempts. The distinction between higher and lower subjects was abolished and proficiency in English was deemphasised. In the IFS it has posed a challenge for training: How to teach Spanish, German or French to the new recruits who are not good in English. In all services, it meant loss of idealism. Middle aged people with persistence to appear in the examination again and again started entering the civil services. UPSC became Union Public Surprise Commission. There are instances of inspectors who were caught taking bribes (but acquitted being given benefit of doubt) later got into IPS and class 1 central services. The new system was meant to counter elitism in civil services; which it may have done to some extent. But the idealism that one saw in young recruits (upto 1979 batch) has been lost. Many in the pre-1980 batches became spineless and corrupt mid-career. But 1980 batch onwards, many have such tendencies while in junior scale. Journalists including MJ Akbar after meeting officer trainees have reported that for some entrants to class 1 service prime reason was to make (illicit) money. Their choice of the civil service also depended on this factor. This was not the case earlier. There is a wide variation between individual officers; but we are talking about the averages and thereby the cutoff year is rightly assessed as 1980. There have been attempts to revert to the earlier system; but such proposals are either classified as elitist and rejected or get lost in committees.
Prof. N. C. Saxena

DEBATE (1)
Debate It is disheartening to note that leadership development in the country is given a very low priority as retired bureaucrats are inducted laterally as MPs/ministers or governors. We had suffered lack of leadership during 2004-14 as the office of the prime minister was held by a former civil servant who was controlled 100% by an unconstitutional contraption called the NAC. The council was filled with persons with questionable credentials. The BJP with 303 seats in parliament has exhibited complete lack of top-grade leaders to hold charge of various ministries. It has missed a golden opportunity. Politics poses threat to any good leader as others too aspire to reach the top slot at the earliest. That might be the reason for unduly over-dependence on retired officers. What India needs is world class leaders in all parties. What is on offer is duds, dudes, docile and born to remain imbecile leaders already conducting themselves as the next prime minister of India or chief minister of UP! He who said that politics is the last resort of scoundrels was wrong because if it were to be true no Mahatma Gandhi would have been born to lead a freedom movement like him. When leadership development is ignored for selfish reasons it affects the long-term vision of the nation and people oriented mission such as Cancer treatment in India which costs 4X the Ayushman Bharat aid of Rs.5 Lakhs annually. In which century the aam Indian will be able to afford it?
M L Gupta

DEBATE 1
Visionary- To be visionary, person need not be IAS/IFS. Example Late Sri Kamraj, then CM of TamilNadu. His vision in field of Education, PDS, Construction of Dam, concept of linking rivers-Garland concept.
R K Upadhyay
DoP to engage retired Government employees as Consultants
I think instead of engaging retired officers as consultants, Government of India should tie up with IIMs and get the services of students of IIMs as consultants. This has helped Gujarat Government to overcome the problem of water scarcity.
Pradeep
Cut-Off year of spineless bureaucrats !
Not necessarily. I know atleast one IAS officer of the 1973 batch in UP,who was utterly spineless.
Amitabh Agrawal

Administrators v/s Ambassadors
First, consider their hands-on experiences.
The IAS officers have large public interface and can successfully manage the political class and have cosy relationships with them. They have huge discretionary authority that is liable to be misused. Excellent chances of getting post-retirement assignments by encashing political contacts.
The Indian Foreign Service, for several decades, has been under-rated,even though the IFS officers have more legitimate income by virtue of better pay scales and handsome foreign allowances. But , their authority is confined to their domain. Being academically inclined,they have better oratorial skill.
Conclusion :
Equipped with wide administrative experience and project monitoring ,the IAS officers have the advantage of having a more result-oriented approach.
Attaching IFS officers with ministers is waste of their talent. They are not cut out for such jobs.
This is not to be-little the IFS officers.
If the IFS officers are considered worldly-wise, the IAS officers can be considered street- smart.
A K Saxena ( A former civil servant)
Low filing of ITRs
Possible reasons and solutions Only 1.5 crore pay income tax in the country with population of 130 crore is worrisome for the growth of the country. There may be number of reasons for not paying tax and low filing of tax returns. Whether our tax implementation system is complex or mind set of people to escape taxes, this needs to be analysed. Without any prejudice: from SSR case it is evident that there is excess flow of cash in the market. It is reported by media that 70-80% of any contract value is paid in cash and rest 20-30% by cheque or digital transfer. So it is clear that tax is paid only on 30% amount and after that taking all possible expenses as deductions and effective tax paid is much less. In result, there is amazing wealth accumulation and assets with such system. It can be judged by the fact that when they travel, it is by chartered plane. When any function such as marriage, award functions etc. it is outside the country like Italy, Dubai, Singapore, London and so on. They try to find the ways to spend the money. The other part is when money is paid in cash, it is outside the Govt. financial system and form parallel economy in the country. This trend is common in other sectors also but percentage may vary and is not uncommon in other professional services. Traders, businessman, shopkeepers, professionals etc. who deal large part in cash, avoid paying taxes and also do not file returns as they are outside the financial system of Govt. The root cause of low filing and escaping taxes seems to be perhaps excess flow of cash. Excess cash in the system gives rise to other ill side effects like generation of black money, corruption, drugs dealing etc. It is not something a new thing is being disclosed, it is well known to everyone. So from layman point of view to increase tax payers base as well as revenue, banning cash transaction after putting some threshold limit say Rs.10,000/- may be one of the solutions.. When Govt, can transfer as little as Rs. 500/- to Jan Dhan Accounts using digital technology. Why others cannot do it? Rs.10,000/- seems to be good reasonable figure to allow cash transactions and consider ban above this limit. There may be some compulsion to put ban on cash transaction but we have to start the process of banning cash transactions after certain limits. Automatically most of the people will be in Govt. financial system after implementing cash ban. At the same time high denomination notes i.e. Rs.500/ and Rs.2000/- needs to be withdrawn in specified time frame with full public knowledge and announcement. Simultaneously it also requires push to digital India so it can take care of excess transactions generated due to cash transactions limit. Banning cash transactions after certain limit will reduce the work load of banks at least by 50% and banks may utilize their valuable time for other banking activities effectively and efficent;y. Banning of cash transaction may be deliberated in appropriate forum to arrive at logical conclusions. Our income tax implementation system still to be made easier and seamless so a ordinary person can also understand it. In summary to increase tax payers base and revenue, the following points are worth considering: 1. Banning cash transactions above Rs.10,000/-. Let it be electronic or cheque.. 2. Withdrawing Rs.500/ and Rs.2000/- notes with full public knowledge. 3. Reducing Cash withdrawal limit in FY to Rs..10 lakhs from all accounts above that TDS to be deducted which can be adjusted in ITR 4. Giving aggressive push to Digital India as it was in 2015-16 to take care of increased digital transactions. 5. Issuing plastic cards to all account holders for their transactions and dealings. 6. Simplifying the tax system and easy implementation not like ITR2 schedule 112A which is still being debated among tax payers. 7. Income tax department may take SSR case as study case and understand implication of cash transaction on tax system. It is humbly submitted that Govt. may like to consider the above points in the interest of country which may achieve the desired results. Good Luck.
Naveen

DEBATE (1)
IAS officers are visionary. They know their subject very well. How can an IFS see the subject of public interest ?
I D Khatri
Politics of thriving on the crime must stop
I sincerely follow Saxena's messages and find it very crisp and to the point but differ in the context of present Hathras case. Isn’t he also greatly influenced by the 'verdict' already delivered by few channels ? Going by today's report, it appears a failed affair going horribly wrong. Some tinge of old enmities also surfaced. Shouldn't one wait before using such narratives against the crime one has not committed at all. Seeing present scenario, it is falling in 85% category in which Victim and the criminal is known to each other. Though I'm not expert on such matters, I feel it is very difficult to prevent crime against women in such case because known person is least expected to commit crime, though it being done rampantly. Crime should be treated as crime without giving a grading like heinous, more heinous, less heinous etc on the basis of its caste, creed, religion or whether committed in the state ruled by the opposition. Politics of thriving on the crime must stop. We must also find a way to stop the tendency of some group of taking it to international level or UN because they don't like the face of people selected with majority. USA or UK or most advanced countries are no better than India in terms of crime against women.
V K Pandey
A secretary : 1000 watt bulb
Humorous but real.
R K Upadhyay